sig rattler vs springfield saint

Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. We really liked the handguard. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. Much of their stuff is imported and rebranded. Matte Black. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. MSRP: $700; palmettostatearmory.com, Good advice on the 300 blk pistols Anybody not owning a 300 blk should consider getting one Im 66 years young, big fan of 270,300 magnum but this 300 blk up to 150 yards is great . AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. But you may have noticed complete uppers selling for as little as $400 during the last rounds of holiday sales and complete carbines selling for less than $700. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. Wow just read the article on TTAG. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. No. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . So was the grip and handguard. We did, however, find the bolt catch to be weak. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . This video does make me feel better about Springfield. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. Please keep us posted. You have entered an incorrect email address! Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. Maybe they will give me some clarity. So, I spread the wealth equally. I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? The Sig Sauer Rattler. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. Life has a melody. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. I used two suppressors with the Rattler. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. 300 AAC Blackout. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. | The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. Forged rather than cast aluminum is now the standard, and machining is more exact thanks to computer numerically controlled (CNC) automation. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. Just Got this in my e-mail . For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. Pistol: Semi-Auto. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. Learn how your comment data is processed. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. Looks pretty sweet . The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. You have entered an incorrect email address! It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. Honey badger .300bo 5. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. We tested our 1:7/1:8-twist-barreled carbines with 60-grain V-Max 223 Remington rounds plus 5.56mm ammunition topped with 69-grain OTM (open-tipped match), 77-grain OTM, and 77-grain TMK (tipped Match King) rounds from Black Hills Ammunition. So after that day it was on my dream list . Target order was dictated as a circuit of left, center, right, left, center, right, and so on. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. View Product. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. Its truly impressive. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. . I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. Brand: Springfield. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. JavaScript is disabled. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? SIG's Rattler pistols come with a 5.5 inch PDW threaded barrel and removable tool-less M-Lok Handguard. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. Thanks for opening my eyes. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. About every 20 to 25 shots, the trigger would pull straight through. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. One new winner* is announced every week! I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. Operation was very smooth and secure. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. Outdoors, only the Winchester FMJ produced enough flash to be visible to me when shooting. JavaScript is disabled. It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. But thats not really new, either. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. Though its important to enter this aspect of the cartridge with eyes wide open. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. Target right showed five A-zone shots. The SIG Rattler is something special. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. Lets see if our money was well spent. Profits before the 2A. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. Caliber: 300 AAC Blackout-MSRP: 1015. Extraordinary accuracy. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. Compare. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Springfield Armory Saint Victor. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Privacy Policy. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. So these two were on my list . Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. Thats as short as ARs get. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact.

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